people would find him just a little too smirky, a little too aggressive, a little too rude, a little too smiley at inappropriate points. so that was definitely a better piece on the golly locks style than the president had it, but i'm still looking for that just right moment. >> now karen, you wrote that it was a do over as much as a debate. >> it was. >> discuss. >> well, i think that, you know, he was out there as much as anything, he was out there to try to undo some of the damage from president obama's own disappointing performance and he had two audiences. he had the disspirited democratic base who probably was thrilled to see him feisty and fighting, but i agree with ruth, for that slice of the electorate that is potentially on the fence here, or was feeling a little, you know, upset and leaning toward romney as a result of that earlier debate it may have come off as his manner may have come off as either disrespectful or at worse ba foonish. >> michael, what about paul ryan and his approach? was he, you know, too cold, compared to biden's heat, or just right? >> it was a little bit cold